Nothing Much
Recently I returned from a mission to Balad, you know, where Rumsfeld hangs out with the insurgent leaders. Seemed to be the same-old convoy mission except for a few things. First, we were just a bit late to experience a VBIED (car bomb) near a bridge outside Ba'qubah. We passed a line of waiting cars on our left and a pile of smoldering metal debris to our right. It is a tight alley flanked by high bushes with frequent traffic jams. The detonation must have been less than an hour before we arrived. I don't know if there were casualties or not, besides the driver. It looked as though the car detonated away from a congested area for some odd reason. Bad time to not have batteries in my cameras.
Next, once we arrived on base, we pulled our trucks to the side to in-process. I stood no more than 20 meters away from the front gate and guard shack watching an Iraqi soldier dance around and play with his weapon (AK-47). Once he brought it up, aimed at a car on the other sideof the fence, and pulled the trigger. He dry-fired, no ammo. I stood there in disbelief. Our ROE (Rules of Engagement) state that any hostile action by anyone will be met with deadly force. I said something to my gunner, who didn't see it. I stood there watching this fool hop around like he was on some rap video, throwing his weapon down and acting stupid. Again, he walked over, picked up the AK and aimed at the car and driver. Pulled the trigger 4 more times and made the rifle jerk like it was firing. That was enough. I grabbed my M249 and hastily approached this young soldier with my finger pointing at his face. He turned, faced me and went limp.
"Yes, sir...", he was able to mutter.
"Point that ****** weapon toward the ground at all times! Do NOT *&$#%$ raise it at anyone. You point it, I see you, I shoot you %$$#$ dead. Understand, ^&%$^)( dead." I sternly communicated to him as I demonstrated how to properly handle a weapon (I was up in his face).
"No bullets, sir, no bullets."
"I don't freakin' care. I don't know that when I see you. You raise weapon at an innocent person or another soldier and you are DEAD."
"yes sir, thank you sir." He mumbled as I walked away.
That is what we call a "brief block of instruction" in the Army. I may have just saved that kid's life, or at least made him look like an ass to his comrades.
During the mission we had to wear full battle rattle 24/7 with no air conditioning. The transient housing tents were full of sand fleas, so I now look like I have suffered a biblical plaque.
After the mission, I was given a convoy team coin. I am now part of the 'inner circle' so to speak.
Next, once we arrived on base, we pulled our trucks to the side to in-process. I stood no more than 20 meters away from the front gate and guard shack watching an Iraqi soldier dance around and play with his weapon (AK-47). Once he brought it up, aimed at a car on the other sideof the fence, and pulled the trigger. He dry-fired, no ammo. I stood there in disbelief. Our ROE (Rules of Engagement) state that any hostile action by anyone will be met with deadly force. I said something to my gunner, who didn't see it. I stood there watching this fool hop around like he was on some rap video, throwing his weapon down and acting stupid. Again, he walked over, picked up the AK and aimed at the car and driver. Pulled the trigger 4 more times and made the rifle jerk like it was firing. That was enough. I grabbed my M249 and hastily approached this young soldier with my finger pointing at his face. He turned, faced me and went limp.
"Yes, sir...", he was able to mutter.
"Point that ****** weapon toward the ground at all times! Do NOT *&$#%$ raise it at anyone. You point it, I see you, I shoot you %$$#$ dead. Understand, ^&%$^)( dead." I sternly communicated to him as I demonstrated how to properly handle a weapon (I was up in his face).
"No bullets, sir, no bullets."
"I don't freakin' care. I don't know that when I see you. You raise weapon at an innocent person or another soldier and you are DEAD."
"yes sir, thank you sir." He mumbled as I walked away.
That is what we call a "brief block of instruction" in the Army. I may have just saved that kid's life, or at least made him look like an ass to his comrades.
During the mission we had to wear full battle rattle 24/7 with no air conditioning. The transient housing tents were full of sand fleas, so I now look like I have suffered a biblical plaque.
After the mission, I was given a convoy team coin. I am now part of the 'inner circle' so to speak.
posted by Dorman at 10:18
36 Comments:
And, I'd like to know why I wasn't permitted to speak to my employees that way?!? It's direct, emphatic and to the point. Why dance around the subject?
Congrats D!
You are seeing things that our 'we' should not see. I am sorry for you. Looking back, I feel sorry for your position.
My term in the service was faceless. I have never had the bourdon of 'seeing the enemy' up close. Launch and watch was our goal. But I am sure you will somehow learn from this experience. You always seem to do so, reflectively.
Who thought I exaggerated when I called them baby killers?
Dorman, never doubted you for a moment.
No amount of talking or compromise will solve anything. These people are killers and that is all they are interested in. If they were interested in talking, they would contact someone first rather than send bombs first.
Crys, I am frankly shocked. That attitude is what defeats us before we even start. I have no response to even validate that point of view. I am just sorry you feel that way. Peace at any cost is cowardice.
Weren't you the one a long time ago that rendered the argument to me that 'they love their kids too'?
I have also come to realize that Islam is just another corrupt branch on the Abrahamic religion tree. How can a whole string of religios movements based on theocratic genocide ever change? At this point, I say avoid the whole bunch of them once you know the truth of history. Right Ric? i just crapped on your front lawn so-to-speak. I figure now you will edify in a response,please.
Okey Then...
Ric, you know better than all of us the Old Testament is replete with commands from God ordering the elimination of whole races, cities, countries, peoples....genocide. All the derivative religions have followed suit no matter how the facts have been interpreted.
Crys, I serached, maybe Saije said it but it was said in one of the debates we had.
We need to ask ourselves what good comes out of this rotten part of the world. Aret he Iraqis doing anything good, productive and noteowrthy? No. Do they help themselves? no. The gov't still is spinning its wheels, the only citizens that are doing anything close to making a positive difference are the volunteer soldiers. There is nothing, that I see (and I look daily), that is reportable on the 'good news' side of things.
We touched on reconstruction and a standard for the rural parts of Iraq. I got to thinking that morality, ethics, and world-view all develop and match developmental environments. Therefore, these folks that grew up in mud huts in the middle of the desert watching sheep their entire developmental years, will have a very very limited ethos and perspective. That doesn't match with a modern urban western POV. They are like 3rd graders dealing with 11th graders. America is like a headstrong teenager babysitting a 7 year old. That is why we are best served to step back and let them work it all out at their own level.
What about the good that came from the 13+ million dead from nazis? Does a little bit of good justify and excuse genocide? And does genocide become acceptible if I say my god commanded it? Judaism was not original, BTW. Zoroastrianism pre-dated it in that area and many many ideas were based on that. Epic of Gilgamesh pre-dated the Torah and therefore was the basis of the story of Noah. Genocidal roots are genocidal roots, the judgment is on whether genocide is acceptable or not. and the 'ends justify the means' argument doesn't hold intellectually.
I don't think we get involved with these people at all socially. Let them be/do what they want, who are we to condescent to them like some omnipotent beings.
Contrast the quick progress in Afghanistan....hmmm.
You make sweeping assumptions, Crys. You still haven't been able to separate the difference between Islam and muslims and the factI want to destroy one and understand the other.
Ric, i believe,meant exactly what he said. Which is what I have been waiting for for years now. Drofub, listen up too. How many times do you all and the non-muslim American society parrot the speak back that "islam is a peacefulreligion"? Now I have proven where it comes from. You all have an unexamined and twisted view of your own religions and what 'peaceful' is. Let mne sum it up quickly. All Abrahamic religions are based on genocide justified by some divine mandate. Read the OT people. Genocide glossed over by some happy (for the hebrew) ending. Christianity did its share to its own members in Rome all the way up through the crusades and beyond. Islam is an apple thathadn't fallen far from the tree. No pun intended. I don't find their mandate to convert or kill the rest of the world any less tragic than any of the other Abrahamic genocidal mandates found all over scripture. All in perspective and that perspective shifts conveniently in many of you. Peace at all costs! Bah. Might as well be 'Do what you want just please leave me alone!' I don't think we can love or understand them out of their mandate. I think the answer is to get them to transcend the perspective of their religion. As it stands, many middle easterners do not separate secular from religious like we americans do. You want the killing to stop? Realize the entire length of the root then.
I have no answers anymore except that tolerance is not the answer. neither is genocide. I can only imagine that the elimination of the religion will work. We've transcended real Christianity in America. 167 out of 168 hours per week are spent being secular at best for most folks. It is not as strong a motivator for us as islam is for them.
Ric, you just showed a cognitive dissonance to excuse Christianity and Judaism from the same horrors we are dealing with today. According to scripture though, the hebrews did a more thorough job than today's muslim terrorist. You have shown that Christianity has long since left its roots and been made a manifold derivitive of what it was....turned into a self-created idea. We make it what we want it to be and then label it for validation. It is ok whatever the christians and jews historically did because somehow along the line you see they've done some good. Ask the indigenous peoples of america and south america how good it was for them. Or the pagans and druids of europe. how about the half-assed 'civilizing' of africa that left a fine continent still struggling between the cultures it knew and the pseudo western lifestyle imposed upon them. What good has christianity done for the world? Judaism? I know of at least one reader that has a distinct view of the jewish role in the world vs the muslim and christian ideas. As far as I can recollect, it has been only the abrahamic religions that set out to conquer the earth at the edge of a sword for God. So, no it isn't all religions and no muslims and islam are not the same. Christians and christianity are not the same, nor jews and judaism. One is a thought, one is a person. A person can definitely exist without the thought but not vice versa.
I have heard a lot of nay-saying about my suggestions for solutions but I have yet to hear a viable suggestion from anyone else - nuking the place doesn't count. I am here because I put my money where my mouth is in life. Part of some sort of solution, I thought. Walking around america being angst ridden and negating ideas for action just won't solve anything. Clenching your eyes shut and wishing upon that star for peace on earth isn't a plan either. That muslim you know back home that is so peaceful and representative in your mind of Islam as a wholeis not anything like the muslims around the world. the Jew you know in NYC is not like the Jew fighting in Gaza right now. that christian you know or think you are is nothing like the christian in teh slovak countries or in Iraq. Wake up, the environments are different but the ideology is similar. Their upbringing different and their societies different.
My suggestion for a first step in a solution is this....quit wishing, quit being 'tolerant', quit blaming yourselves on worldwide TV, quit holding back 'for others sake', and move forward as Americans! Find some basis that you all agree on and act on it. Act on it as Americans, not saviors of the world, not as some holier-than-though nation that thinks it has a higher calling than it really does....because we don't. We are a country like many others. Not the biggest,not the strongest, just the loudest at this point.
Our administration does what it does because it can get away with it amidst the bickering and in-fighting amongst the factionalized american 'culture'. Multiculturalism has been a plague on american society for a long time and this is a negative symptom.
I was aiming more at the dismissal of such genocidal acts rather than a justification thereof. And I am not attacking christianity nor judaism per se. I am making a broader view of the state of islam today and how we tend to think incongruously about it vs our own familiar religion.
I do have a solution. It is just one that you don't like, Crys. Eliminate the religion like Europe has eliminated the philosophy of Nazism. Been saying that all along. After the crusades,Christianity essentially got neutered socially and because more of a folk belief system than a governmental platform. Hence the 'social neutering' I spoke of long ago. Western civilization transcended the religion in their governments and society and thus reduced the religion's role and power therein. Britain was the closest thing to an exception with its C of E and monarchy. But that even changed. Same thing needs to start here.
Implementation is easy. Disallow immigration from the middle east, disallow special priveleges. Europeans outlawed nazism. Doesn't need to go that far but it is a last resort.
You make a suggestion. anybody.
Why is islam thought of any different than the idea of communism or nazism? Mormonism ended up in Utah for a specific reason (but then america expanded around it anyway). Funny how sense and rules that applied before don't seem to apply to islam today. why not? Immigration control is part of the answer, ask Sweden. Ric has a great point about tolerance being too far gone.
nazism's philosophy is exactly the same as islam's except islam has an unseen leader in allah instead of a fuhrer. superior race = arab, subjugate world, kill millions in cause's name, scapegoat a demographic to justify (the infidel non-muslim).
snotsucker, how about a brief lesson on the nazi belief system/philosophy.
for another point of view, check out LindaSoG.com . She may have some interesting ideas on how to control the problem.
You cannot compare magnitude or proportion. But that is not what we are comparing or are interested in. Dorman is interested in similarities between their ideologies/philosophies leading to their actions. And YES they are similar. Nazi 401 coming soon.....
Gutenacht!
Due to lack of time, sorry, I'm taking the easy way out. And I would have only skimmed the surface of what has already been researched/written. I actually learned quite a bit after looking into it further. I'm no expert on Nazism, but have studied it on my own out of sheer interest and fascination.
Here are two links that give an in depth look into the similarities/parallels between the two:
Freerepublic
Mideastnewswire
1) most of most of the USA's oil comes from Venezuela, middle east oil is 4th or 5th on the list. We have more on american soil than the middle east produces. Oil is a game of chicken to see who will be the first to run out. think about who we'd want to run out first....middle east.
2) similarities between nazism and how islam is written. any interpretation of what is written changes the basis and therefore is not islam. Hence neo-nazis instead of nazis today. Folks that read the scripture of a religion as it is written are NOT radical. It is irrational to think you would be part of a religion and not go by its laws as written.
3) count the bodies of the dead. Since islam's inception there have been more dead than the nazis.
4) islam was not borne out of persecution, it was spread BY persecution and the edge of the sword. Mohammed's first conquest was Medina, then Mecca. Not peacefully but by a military attack.
5) judaism evolved past the genocidal period of its history. christianity did also, about 100 years ago. Islam is roughly in the same developmental period as chritianity was during its crusades time. Christianity separated from being solely political to being more religious inasmuch as the government wasn't run and appointed by a church and laws were secularized. Islam needs to have the same happen.
"Some people wonder why Muslims become so irritated when you criticize their religion. To understand this phenomenon you have to understand Muhammad. Muhammad was a narcissist. He craved for attention. He demanded his followers to love him more than their own parents and more than their own selves. Personality cult is part of the despotic rule. Muhammad could make such demands by putting his wishes in the mouth of his imaginary Allah. Also because he was a narcissist he could not tolerate dissent and because of that he had no regards for human lives. Killing those who differed with him was as easy for him as killing bugs. Nothing mattered to him except his own self and his reveries of grandiosity.
Muslims echo that mindset. They have lost their own identity as independent human beings. They see themselves as part of Muhammad’s extended ego. They see their own existence as a function to appease this man's ghost. They have accepted to become supplies to Muhammad's narcissistic cravings.
Muhammad convinced his followers that those who serve him more, love him more, and sacrifice themselves for him are the best. He assured them that he is the only one that can intercede for them in front of Allah. Obedience to Allah actually meant obedience to him and fear of Allah was also fear of him. Allah was his own alter ego. So Muslims of his time competed with each other to meet his approval. The great historian Al Tabari, writes that Muslim tribes and individuals vied with each other to serve him and gain his approval. He would promise them heaven and they were elated with those promises. Tabari writes: if someone assassinated an opponent of the messenger of Allah he would praise the assassin for getting him rid of that opponent. This would encourage other Muslims to come to him and tell him that so and so is also badmouthing him asking his permission to kill that person. Al Tabari says such was the devotion of the believers that they felt envious of each other if one of them did a service to the Prophet and was favored by him. This sycophantic spirit, that is based on personality cult, typical in dictatorial milieus and encouraged by individuals suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, lingered among the followers of Muhammad and is accentuated by the passage of time. Muhammad is dead but the sycophantism of his early followers has survived. Muhammad is dead but his intolerance has survived. Muhammad is dead but the community that he forged continues to live by the standards that he left.
There are several stories about Omar, the second caliph, who would pull out his sword asking permission to slay the man who would question Muhammad’s claim in front of him. Why would Omar behave in such manner? Obviously he was encouraged by Muhammad's approval. In this way he would show his total devotion to him and would demonstrate that he is a loyal believer. If you say a word against Muhammad and Muslims today behave as if they want to slit your throat is because that legacy of sycophantic zealotry condoned and encouraged by Muhammad has survived. Therefore the source of all Islamic bigotry and intolerance must be traced to Muhammad himself. This is a colossal catastrophe that a billion people follow the whims of an emotionally insane narcissist. Muhammad is such a huge lie that is almost believable. But we can only understand him if we study the lives of other great narcissists such as Hitler, Stalin or Saddam Hussein. Bearing in mind that Muhammad was the greatest of all.
So what is the solution? But before that let me tell you what IS NOT the solution. Fighting Muslims is not the solution. Discriminating against them is not the solution. Hating them is not the solution. Remember that Islam thrives on hate. Islam needs an enemy to survive. If there is no enemy it invents one. Doctrines of hate cannot survive without enemy. It is the hatred of the enemy that makes them strong. The communists had the bourgeoisie to hate, the Nazis had the Jews to hate and the Muslims have the non-believers to hate. So by becoming their enemy you are fueling their fire. They grow stronger when they have enemies. Hating the Muslims will only harden them. Muslims love to consider themselves as victims in order to hate their "oppressors" and summon force to combat them and "take revenge". So what is the solution?
Understanding them is the solution. You have to understand why they behave in this way. When you understand that Islam is not a religion but the hallucination of a very evil man, you realize that Muslims are truly victims. you cannot hate victims. You have to help them. But how? The answer is by exposing the fallacies of their belief. The true nature of Muhammad must be exposed. You must undermine the foundation of their beliefs. That is the solution. We should not attack the Muslims but Islam. This is diametrically opposed to what the politically correct world is doing now. The world, just as during the Chamberlain's days, is adopting the policy of appeasement. Everyone is trying to leave Islam and its author unblemished and blame "a few of its misguided" followers. This is hypocrisy. The followers are doing what their holy book is demanding them to do. You cannot revere the bloody scriptures of the Quran and condemn those who follow them. This approach is doomed to fail because it is based on lie. It has not worked and it is not going to work. The problem is with the Quran not with those gullible souls who believe in that book. If we want to eliminate Islamic terrorism, we have to change our strategy. We have to find the source of the problem and eliminate it from the source. The source is the Quran; the problem is Muhammad; not the believers."
awesome. I understand the solution but feel that there is little hope of it being successful for 2 reasons. 1) Ric can tell you even more in depth how the world has tried to stamp out christianity, even in the face of blatantly created 'history', 2) understanding is not effective, it is a vehicle or a mode, not an action. And 'pointing out the fallacies' and rationalizing with a muslim pits you against them again. Keep in mind all you have to do is be to be their enemy. Rationalizing with a person so irrational to have suicidal faith in the joke of islam is idiotic, like talking about fine wines to a hobo. That is why christianity withstood the Roman days...if the romans wouldn't persecute them, they killed each other in the Romans' names and called it martyrdom. What could the romans do. It became a he-said, she-said situation. We all know that if you repeat a mantra enough times to enough people, it becomes true, and it isn't true then you justified 'faith'.
Nazis, communists, imperialists, all defeated by the gun.
Out of curiosity, what did CPT. Picard do to fend off the Borg?
Ever hear of the Cold War? Lots of guns involved in that stand off which ultimately defeated communism in Russia. Now how does one defeat the idea of communism? How does one defeat the neo-nazi movement? Lot's of nay-saying and no solutions won't bring about change.
Why the continued reluctance to equate islam with nazism, the two are almost identical except in origin and focal leader (hitler or allah). No one has figures on how many the muslims have killed because it has been so long and wide spread, we don't even have exact numbers on how many the nazis killed.
Here's a test, post your honest initial reactions.....
I personally think Nazi philosophy is correct. I think Hitler was an amazing leader and did wonders for Germany to be stopped only by the mistake of genocidal actions. I believe there are master races, of which I am one, and parasitic races that drain and destroy the society in which I live. I would be proud to publicly call myself a Nazi and wear the uniform which represents my beliefs. I will engage any and all who oppose my beliefs and my efforts to make the changes I see necessary.
end test
Now, what is your initial reaction?
so why does communism not take ahold in most civilized societies any more but yet islam does?
Guns were major factor in the Cold War. obviously.
Here's another clip to consider...
I personally think islam philosophy is correct. I think Mohammed was an amazing leader and did wonders for Arabia to be stopped only by the mistake of genocidal actions. I believe there are master races, of which I am one, and parasitic races that drain and destroy the society in which I live. I would be proud to publicly call myself a muslim and wear the garb which represents my beliefs. I will engage any and all who oppose my beliefs and my efforts to make the changes I see necessary.
somehow the first one people spit at as hate-mongers, but then turn and give a blank check for the second. Same philosophy and mindset, just different nouns. Check the consistancy in your thinking folks. And if you are a constant, nay-sayer (drofub) then please enlighten us all as to how to handle the obvious assault we endure daily in the name if islam (the attackers' claims, not mine).
to make a religion 'moderate' or to change it from its original purpose as exposed in written unchanging scripture is to fundamentally change the nature of the beast. It then becomes something other than islam much like american christianity is nothing like the orthodox christianity here in the middle-east. Like I said to Ric, it becomes a self-created phenomenon instead of an example of the original.
If you are going to tell someone their ideas are shortsighted or wrong, follow up with a solution of your own.
Hitler, wrote in Mein Kampf. "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work."
As for your test, :))
I guess I have missed the solution then. And the statements were not radical by any means,just statements of faith. I don't understand the hold on the 'moderate muslim' thing when I do not speak of muslims at all. I speak of islam, two different things in the same vein as Botox. And no I am not purposely being difficult. I am stating directly the incongruous nature of many people's thinking on the subject and trying to understand why it is important for Joe Redneck to be so politically correct that they defend the creed of the enemy.
No nation on the planet except for America holds so dear the praise for its attackers' beliefs and contempt for itself. It confuses me.
London has it more correct than we ever did.
and I suggested that as part of a cure for islam in previous comments. But it IMHO only part of the solution.
My only standing question is this.... How can it be feasible to eliminate a philosophy from the minds of europeans by banning anything nazi, but unrealistic to do the same for a philosophy such as islam? Numbers are not a reason. Muslims are minority numbers in europe. Also, read up on the attitude of many many muslims in europe...not peaceful and assimilating. That is what I need a solution for, the subtle insidious spread of the foundation of terrorism. Christianity has no influence on the path of islam, just parallels it.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
One cannot make a blanket statement such as the "Nazis..made a concerted effort to take over the world" without knowing their reasoning behind it. The Nazis did not "just" want to take over the world. There was a reason. What was that reason??
As Dorman stated in his blog, so many people are only concerned with half truths and their opinions. Not facts and answers. Just as Dorman has repeatedly requested answers to his questions, I have asked a question and received an opinion. Dorman I can see why you're getting tired.
Drofub, you've lumped the Nazis just as everyone has lumped together Muslims/Islamics. Not all Nazis were "Nazis", not all Nazis wanted to take over the world, not all Nazis wanted to kill their neighbor or Jews. But, they are obviously different???????? And therefore the "reasoning" for Islamics/Muslims is unimportant as well.
Islam wasn't borne out of persecution,it waws spread by persecution. Mohammed conquered Mecca and Medina to force islam upon them in place of their money motivated polytheism. By the sword, not because of its intrinsic merit.
People judge nazis by their deeds, people excuse muslims by their apparent philosophy.
That's because people do not take the time to research the Nazi philosophy, but rather form an opinion based on pictures of bodies lying in mass graves and cachectic looking prisoners.
My position at this time is irrelevant. But I will accept your astuteness as a compliment. I'm accomplishing what I set out to do, attempting to debate with facts rather than preformed opinions.
quote: "..as of today no such organized effort has been carried out by muslims"
Wow, where have you been? Weren't you able to see the evidence from the public beach near your house a few years ago? Also, ask Londoners what they think. It didn't take all of nazism to be involved in a death camp, it didn't take all of islam either. Oh and they have death camps too. Mass graves don't fill themselves.
again. it doens't matter what a moderate muslim thinks because he/she has interpretted the written literal word of Allah to a point beyond recognition. Moderate muslims by definition pick and chose what they want to obey (like my friends who smoke, drink, and screw), Allah commanded a real muslim to obey every thing in the Koran. The Koran, to muslims, is the actual words of Allah written down by Mohammed, not an interpretation thereof, nor some history covering thousands of years or records of oral traditions. This differs from the Christian and Jewish point of view that God spoke through prophets and that many of the prophets took signs to interpret what God's meaning and message was. The Koran is Allah speaking to muslims exactly like I am speaking to you all right now.
And yes, muslims have waged a longer 'war' with death tolls comparable to the Nazis. Convert or Kill the infidel is pretty straight forward when it is the actual words of your god. And the Jews have little to do with Nazis or muslims. They were victims of Nazis, sure, but the point of Nazism wasn't to wipe out the Jews, it was to eliminate them from Germany because they were scapegoats. The LindaSoG Blog may have more information on why Jews and muslims continue to fight.
Besides...what is the test do determine what a 'moderate muslim' is?
If there is no bomb in his shoe, or in his backpack, he is a moderate Muslim. Really, it's true. And if you twist your mind hard enough, you can convince yourself to believe anything.
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