Sunday, May 15, 2005

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.

HATE : 1 a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b : extreme dislike or antipathy : LOATHING

I have recently been accused of hating. What caught my attention was that the implication was that hate is a universally bad thing, that hate should never occur, is completely unjustifiable, and is the root of the world's problems. I can think of nothing but how we Americans have been so mind numbed by political correctness and fear of our own emotions that one can't express an aversion to what he/she feels is wrong. Repression of feelings is psychologically unhealthy and social neutralizing. We come from a rich tradition of being able to defend ourselves,our families, or property (2nd Amendment). But anymore the cow-eyed public bows to criminals and bullies for fear of hate. Mind you, not the fear that the bad guy hates the victim, but the fear that the victim may feel the appropriate response of hatred toward the perp. The victim spends their time more often now trying to discover what makes the criminal do what they do, or how the criminal feels. I say, who the hell cares? Punish antisocial behavior, raise our children with the proper emotional tools to survive instead of encouraging our children to be sheep waiting for the wolves.
When I was a kid, if someone started to bully another kid, a fight usually started. The bully usually got the crap knocked out of him and that ended the tough-guy attitude. Nowadays, principals want to arrest 7 year olds for defending themselves physically. But, you say, "Oh Dorman, you stepped into a trap! You just equated hate with violence." Well, hate does not equal violence but it can fuel it. Hate does not equal anger either. All are normal healthy emotions that fall on the spectrum of the human psyche.
Hate has a use. What do you folks think we soldiers do while we are at war? Is American society that out of touch to think that we are driving around acting as humanitarians and embassadors of good will? Is there a compassionate way to kill someone attacking you with a rocket propelled grenade? Some people have earned hate.

I say to everyone, blind hatred is wrong because it is based on ignorance. Hatred based on experience is a powerful and decisive tool, not to be feared by the bearer, but used discriminately and sparingly.

Title quote by
Dwight D. Eisenhower


Blogger Crystal said...

good quotation, not sure if it is being used properly, unless you agree that war in general is stupid, is futile. which you can't, being a soldier, fighting in the midst of its brutality, in essence supporting and continuing its stupidity.

just thought i would tweak the words around a little, give you more food for thought. i dont think you are stupid, or what you are doing is futile...

Moving on. Onto political correctness...sometimes social neutralization is better than polarization of two combative sides. we live in a world of compromise, a compromise between love and hate.

The first amendment, mind you, it came before the second, includes a phrase, what is it again??? Oh yeah, FREEDOM OF RELIGION!

Anonymous Anonymous said...

not to get too technical here but what is social neutralization? we live in a world where people want to kill Americans as proven by 9/11. They will do so again and again if not stopped. No compromise there.

Blogger Crystal said...

yeah, we do live in a world where we are hated for being american. our hate in return just shows this is a dog-eat-dog world. definitely not my idea of a perfect world...but that doesn't mean we should not strive to make it thus.

Blogger Saije said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Dorman said...

cool, some are getting my point. And, Crys, just because I 'hate' Islam does not mean that I don't think war is stupid and futile and brutal. Ask yourselves the questions I posed in the comments of the last entry, then tell me how futile and stupid this war is. Remember that there are many different layers of perspective. My personal level does not necessarily need to coincide with the bigger picture(s). When I joined the Army, we weren't involved with Iraq. I never wanted to come here. I wanted to eliminate Islam through the spread of common sense, not bullets and bombs. But they bring the fight to us.
IMHO, this war is not totally futile but our efforts are seriously mismanaged and the premise for our presence is dubious. Did you know that KBR (Kellogg, Brown and Root) is the company that provides us much of our 'life support' comforts? They do a lot of supply trucking, take care of our laundry, run our MWR centers. They are paying a warm body $85,000 a year to hand out towels at the gym and supply guys $10,000 a month to hand out supplies. For our food service though they use Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, etc, for service and labor. Probably at a small fraction of what the warm body makes. I think it is great for those folks to be able to earn respectable money and take back home, but why cut corners there? Have one of the food guys also hand out towels, save that much more money. Plus I have yet to see the 'reconstruction' going on in Iraq. Supposedly commercialization had started at the largest of bases. It is a slow moving process to convert from Army provided internet access to some hi-speed wireless-by-laser commercial product. Funny how it isn't rebuilding an Iraqi town.
Last example of futility is an example of a circular argument. My unit is here to support a Regional Combat Team, you know, they guys who make people crispy. They do combat patrols and sweeps looking for insurgents. Why are there insurgents in the area? Bingo, because we are in the area. No us, no insurgents, no insurgents, no reason for us to be here. I would understand if we were protecting somehting like a newly built infrastructure, but there is nothing around us for miles and miles.

Crys, Freedom OF religion has turned in to freedon FROM religion to many Americans. Look around at Christmas time. Just because it is a religion doesn't mean it is right, wholesome, or good.

Blogger Dorman said...

Social neutralization = turning society into an emotionless, non-responsive mass of easily led automatons.

Ever read 'A Brave New World'? How close to that society are we now?

Blogger Saije said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Saije said...

reference for my post above

Blogger Crystal said...

very good book. but I would say we aren't anywhere close to those kinds of conditions, or conditioning. You should read Catch 22, but I wouldnt recommend war novels while still in Iraq.

Freedom from religion is fine with me. As long as no one is trying to destroy another person's right to believe in nothing, something, someone or God. People can worship an oak tree for all I care, as long as no one takes away that right!

Your personal thoughts are exactly what matters. Otherwise you would become numb, doing what you are told to do, never thinking about the bigger picture. And if you were ever put in a situation to do something you knew was completely wrong, you wouldn't be able to stand up and say no. Though, Im sure you have had to say yes a few times already.

As far as KBR and reconstruction, you are pretty much affirming what many of us suspect or believe is the case. And if we are not progressing, we should change our tracks. Except we won't, we will continue along these roads until the futility reaches peaks of ridiculous heights to a point for the American public to become aware-which will take a whole lot! Although I hate to make the analogy, I DONT think Iraq is our current Vietnam, Vietnam was going terribly way way before the American public became aware of the problems. This is partially do to the secretive nature of the Johnson administration, and partially do to American ignorance.

I think you forget that WE invaded Iraq. We decided to fight there, and we should have realized the kind of mentality we would be facing throughout the Middle East. If the insurgents are there because you all are there, then maybe atleast they are not somewhere planning their next attack in the world.

and saije, I think it is incorrect to tie 9/11 directly to our presence in Iraq. Iraq was on Bush's agenda before 9/11, Iraq was part of a larger problem before 9/11. And Iraq will continue to be the center of the fight against "terrorism" only because we made it so...and maybe for survival, we could have thought about the reasons why we are hated, tried to solve those ills before we met force with force proving once again that history is circular, inevitable, doomed to repeat its bloody self.

Blogger Dorman said...

I would describe them as 'peaceful muslims'.

Blogger Saije said...

maybe that will work better?
sorry to be experimenting
here on your blog

Blogger Dorman said...

Crys, completely agree with you except for our similarity to BNW. Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft == Soma. Free sex taught in our schools with the only moral responsibility - to wear a rubber. We have grandmothers on TV birthing kids conceived in test tubes, sure they aren't incubated in jars or poisoned for class structure. We are segregated into classes in more insuidious ways....and not based solely on race either. We stay youthful through botox and surgery until our skin falls off our bones, then we die like flies or like some gross science experiment in a prolonged, machine enhanced death.

Freedom of religion means we *all* should be free to express it publicly, not just privately. Removing religious artifacts is unfair and biased against certain faiths. Let's face it, American has become anti-christian and not as free as advertised. May I refer back to that Peter Jennings quote that is all too true.

And so what, they flushed a Koran down the toilet. Seems fitting to me. Hell, we burn flags and ban Bibles. Muslims should get the same all-American goodness the rest of us have gotten for years.

(sarcasm not directed toward anyone commenting)

Blogger Crystal said...

im sorry, if someone walked into the church i grew up in and desecrated something, i know the people would go up in arms over it...even being a "peaceful" religion. and whose fault really was it? in my opinion, i would say it is ours for allowing inaccurate accounts to be spread by sensational reporting.

Blogger Saije said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Dorman said...

no one desecrated a mosque or church. They dumped a printed book in the crapper, allegedly. Crys, you just showed the American reaction again. I'm sorry, but that is what makes many of us soldiers cringe. Somehow it is always an American's fault no matter their reaction.

Blogger Dorman said...

Just a side note of interest that has nothing really to do with the flow here. But it seemed pretty apropos to my blog theme. An allegory on Sisyphus.

Blogger Crystal said...

already read it.

you shouldn't cringe because i feel that way. We have to shoulder more of the blame because we are so much better well off, at least, in my opinion. And I seriously doubt my opinion is analogous with mainstream "American" reaction or public opinion, otherwise Bush II would not have been elected, again. I am an American, but lets not label each other into certain spectrums of political thought.

And, allegedly, if what happened really happened, its not about the "printed material" but the lack of respect and toleration for an entire faith that is so bothersome and horrible.

Lastly to saije, I never said I would be up in arms, I said people would be...people, in general would be angry if their beliefs were somehow treated disrespectfully. And trying to compare religious doctrines is unnecessary when trying to understand a normal, human, instinctive reaction when something wrong has been done against you. Although I believe in the whole turn the other cheek philosophy myself...


Blogger SnotSucker said...

There are citizens in Islamic countries that frequently destroy effigies of Bush and burn the American flag. Do Americans react to this in the same overzealous manner as Muslims? I think not. Or is it just the blinders of the media focusing on sensational news of the few, rather than the masses?

So getting back to the ultimate question (which the four of us cannot seem to answer, but only speculate); Why do these people react/think the way they do?

In some ways, this culture is fortunate in that they can protest in this manner. Americans cannot even go to an Inaugural event and voice their displeasure for fear of being arrested. Continued erosion of Americans rights to free speech.

Blogger Crystal said...

Burning an American flag, although disrespectful, is not as horrible as burning a text that someone considers to be holy, of course this again is my opinion, and should not represent the entire American public (that's intended to be subtley sarcastic).

But your question is exactly what we are all in search of. And it has yet to be answered correctly. If we knew the answer, this entire debate would never have occured. I wish I knew the answer...but it is definitely not intolerance. And our restraint to not react...speaks highly of us, though I know some of you disagree with me, on this point. We don't need to react in those ways to show our dislike of the situation because we are not as desperate, nor is the average American directly affected by the outcome of the situation. But many elsewhere are. Most people care when they themselves are forced to. It is not an innate characteristic for most.

Blogger Dorman said...

The answer is something I already know. It is the same reason we continue to have race problems in America really only between 1 race and the rest. It is the same reason why communist North Koreans fight to the death. It is inversely the same reason why America has been turned into a bunch of PC passivists. The answer is easy, changing it is difficult.

Blogger Crystal said...

Well what is the answer then???

Americans do not seem to be pc or passive to me. We are constantly standing up for what we think to each other and the world. We go against world opinion and norms, and have created our own path up to this point. Just because some disagree with you, does not make their opinions passive, and a little more pc decorum may help everyone come to the tables of compromise.

Blogger Dorman said...

I won't answer right away, I think it more fruitful for some discussion first. Don't want to make it easy. Hint: answer is very simple.

Blogger Crystal said...

maybe for you it pray tell, the suspense is terrible.

Blogger SnotSucker said...

This might help...

Blogger SnotSucker said...

This will definitely help us with understanding how they view the Koran.

Blogger Dorman said...

Good article. Even more evidence these people are off the scale of rationality. And it's not Islam that's the problem. Please folks, get a grip.

The answer my friends to the provious statement is that all these groups have these ideas programmed into their heads from birth, whether right or wrong, whether justifyiable or irrational. Somehow slavery still plays a trump card in a country that no one alive has even seen a shackle. The Chinese don't have a coalition, though, to always gripe about how the Coolies were mistreated in the 19th century. The Japanese don't continue to harp on the government about their encampment during WWII. So how do the new generations of groups know how to be unhappy and what to complain about? Easy, it is perpetuated in their racism and their culturalism. Many cultures are based on rebellion, without someone to fight or a cause to fight against, they have no purpose. The culture would not sustain itself.How long has slavery and social injustice been a dead issue that just keeps getting held up until a new generation buys into it?

North Koreans are programmed as good self-sacrificing communists to sustain the state and to rebel against capitalistic pigs of the West. That is part of their culture, what makes them North Koreans. But it wasn't always that way nor does it need to be.

People in the muslim world are the same thing. It is all programmed into them from birth, to an extreme. Everywhere they turn is hatred of something or someone, in some self-righteous self-serving fashion. When was the last gesture of humanitarianism recorded in the muslim world by a muslim? Do a search for that. Please.

The question you all must ask yourselves is this - How much license do you all give [fill in the blank] based on their proclaimed culture or religion or ethnicity or sexual preference? How would you view these same rioting muslims if it weren't so far away from home? What if these riots occurred in Dayton, Ohio? What if it were a mob of angry homosexuals that got mad because someone ripped down a pink triangle flag?

How far does the religion justify destructive, dangerous behavior?

Blogger crystal said...

while i find your comparisons to be a little less convincing than you would like, i understand the overall point you are trying to establish. If you had stated this point from the beginning, you would have found we probably agree more than we disagree concerning the situation. I just believe in a different kind of ideology when it comes to actually fixing the problem, gotta keep your options open!

Blogger Crystal said...

...and offending remarks, graphics, and such down to a minimum

Blogger Saije said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Dorman said...

Crys, as we say in the Signal Corps, "offending remarks" etc are a Reception problem not a Transmission problem.

Saije, I agree, back to the BNW analogy.

Crystal, why is my point? What are your ideologies? It would be great to hear another perspective on this.

Blogger Crystal said...

crystal and crys are me...sorry, haha, i logged in on the wrong name.

Blogger EsotericWombat said...

It probably wasn't the point you were making, but I think that a mob of angry homosexuals isn't really something we have to worry about. Depressingly enough, that seems to be part of the reason why the efforts of the Human Rights Campaign have failed; because there's no violent group to serve as a counterpoint.

Well, if millions have fought and died in history over similar differences, and such wars are still going on today, than it can be said that war cannot be the answer. Sadly, until we find the answer, war is all we have.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dorman your missing the point completely. There are 3 groups in Iraq the Shiites, the Sunis, and the Kurdish. A good 90% of Iraqis are indifferant to our being over there. The Sunis were the ones who are doing most of the attacks, they are the ones who had all the money and power when Saddam was in control. Even if we leave there will still be attacks. Its nothing religous its about who wants to be in control. Only 5% of the attacks are from Muslim extemists. The rest are people who want power.


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