Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Again with the Islam and an american Update

Ya, I thought this argument was dead but here is a great discourse on what I have been proclaiming for a long while now. Just passing on the info.

Other than that, being back in america has been a mixed emotionally. My dog, Zero, has been suffering with some unknown physical problem that causes him to cry and act like he's hindered when laying down or getting up. But then he walks around the yard and digs holes like nothing is wrong.

Also, I have realized some deep conflicts in my attitudes toward the area in which I grew up. In a way I am happy to be visiting but can't wait to get back to my life in Europe. But in another way, I realize that I may only be back here a few times ever in the future. More frightening is the idea that I may exit the army and be stuck coming back to this area (semi) permanently. That is quite my last choice because that means that I would have failed transitioning into a good career after my contract with the army is complete. So much is on the line for our lives just over this summer.

Lastly, my son "graduates" 8th grade today, so that means my hairstyle will get normalized, much to my sadness.


Blogger SnotSucker said...

Man time flies. It was only yesterday he was running around calling me Dr Joel! Congrats Z & keep up the good work!

Blogger mattandriver said...

First to Zak: “Fag!” (As always, you know I’m joking…) You’re becoming a man Zak. I beg you to take charge of your life now, while your young, and start becoming who you what to be. Take the negativity, and the positive, and find your own polarity.

Second, to Dean: “Fag!” I am sorry I have not had the time for you and your family during your leave. Honestly, I feel bad. I only hope that you understand.

Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Location is only a thing. It doesn't define who or what you are.

Your boy is quite handsome! Congrats on the 8th grade graduation. Fish years are always fun!

Blogger brainhell said...

Nice kid. Did he consent to you putting his picture on the internet?

As to the ignorant and alarming screed of hate that you link, again I say to you: Assuming all that is true, what ACTION should we take NOW?

You're waasting your time.

Blogger Dorman said...

wow BH, clever use of propaganda terms that you use to sway and presuppose public opinion. The last I remember the definition of "hate" to be had something to do with irrational loathing or desire to kill. Because an article or opinion is antithetical to the established or popular opinion that you hold does NOT make it "hate". But very clever when one uses a trigger word to gain favor from any future reader. So, the article uses rational evidence, as all my resources have, but because they challenge the "head-in-sand" stasis that you wish to hold on to, you deem it hate. Because something exists does not mean it is entitled to or justified in continuing.

What to do? once again, educate educate educate. do not accept the prescribed PC crap we are meant to. Form your opinions based on fact and evidence then eliminate tolerance for the intolerable.

And no, BH, YOU are wasting my time having me repeat this every time your heart bleeds for the islamic scourge. Why not ask a Canadian friend what they think now. Just saw a great interview with a Cnadian muslim leader who pointed out that the discomfort we assume these muslims feel that drives them to do THEIR HATE mongering was not present in the latest bust. Research it yourself, this is not a spoonfed forum.

Anonymous Tracy said...

Long time reader, first time commenter...
I know a lady who used to teach at Glencliff High in Nashville. She told me that the worst bullying they had there was a gang of Muslim girls (I'm thinking Kurdish-but not sure)who would choose another Muslim girl and bully and harass her then wrap it all up with a nasty beating.
When I asked her why?... she said because they thought they were better Muslims than the girl.
I didn't understand then, I've read more about it now...and I still don't understand. I fear I may be stupid.
Congratulations to Zak on his graduation.

Blogger Robert Chase said...

I hadn't seen the kid in only two years and he looks like he's freaking 18 years old!

When the hell did that happen?? (I know he's not 18, but good lord)

Anyways, I fully agree with mattandriver's comments concerning your direction in life, Zak.

Blogger brainhell said...

> What to do? once again, educate educate educate. do not accept the prescribed PC crap we are meant to. Form your opinions based on fact and evidence then eliminate tolerance for the intolerable.

Gentle dude, Education and non-tolerance are states of mind. Once we're educated and non-tolerant, what do we DO? What ACTION do we take? You have never asnwered that question.

Blogger Crystal said...

That is the solution BH. People who are educated AND tolerant are usually not the ones on suicide missions or breeding hate in the world. That is not to say that people who aren't educated can't be tolerant too...but there is a very real correlation between knowledge and economic status, and with economic status and violence.

Blogger Dorman said...

why tolerate everything? no one has ever answered that. Tolerate rape, tolerate disease, tolerate violence, tolerate murder, tolerate pedophelia, tolerate terrorism, tolerate welfare, tolerate drugs, tolerate shizophrenia, tolerate everything even if it is detrimental to society. Tolarance = the new cowardice.

tolerance is the neo-intelligencia's answer to action while trying to maintain a level of condescension and superiority to those who live actively and make definitive decisions about right and wrong.

Blogger Dorman said...

Besides, I really think we should let that Jeffs guy alone. Afterall, he is just practicing his religion but somehow he's now on the FBI top 10 most wanted.

Blogger Robert Chase said...


Blogger brainhell said...


> People who are educated AND tolerant are usually not the ones on suicide missions...

Dorman was talking about WE non-Moslems educating OURSELVES about THEM and eliminating our tolerance. I asked him what action (note: 'action') WE should take regarding THEM.

You introduced confusion (probably genuine) in defense of Dorman's idea, but neither he, nor any of you, have ever answered the question.

Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Jeffs is the Mormon polygamist. If they didn't marry 18 year old (and younger) girls to men that are 70, I wouldn't have so much of an issue with polygamy.

Anonymous Tracy said...

You can only educate someone who's willing to learn.

Please educate me. I am willing. Give me links that show what wonderful, kind and compassionate things Muslims as a group have done for others. Direct me to historical information about Muslim activities that have promoted peace. Show me verses from the Koran that teach peace for each one others quote that calls for violence. I REALLY want to see them, because mostly what I read leaves me saddened, disturbed and scared. Maybe I'm just chronically looking in the wrong places. Post it on your blog (this is Dorman's space)and I'll gladly read it. If you have and I missed it tell me what months to look at and I will. Show me that what D says isn't true.

Blogger Dorman said...

Thanks Tracy. I hope he does. I also hope we all keep the perspective of not just randomly pulling out surras from the Koran without proper exegesis and hermaneutics. Medina surras override Meccan surras, so that peace & love surra from Mecca that was written early on by Mohammed is then changed to killing uinfidels later on in Mohammed's Medina surras after he got power drunk.

I trust you've read the evidence that I presented early on.

Blogger Dorman said...

and BH, I do read your blog and remember how indignant you got about some self-righteous christians telling you that they'd pray for you. I fully agreed with you and your rejection of the christian delusion. So why is it that you embrace an organization such as islam that violates the principles that you hold? Christians praying for you, tho insulting, is much better than muslims threatening you.

Anonymous Tracy said...


I honestly can't remember if I'd already read it or not. I've definitely read it now. It made me tense. I've learned from you and read similar stuff from other sources. I don't remember anything quite that historically specific.

The more I learn the less I wish I knew...ignorance is bliss, but I'm afraid it's a dangerous bliss.

BTW, Thanks for your service and I hope you have a wonderful visit.

Blogger Robert Chase said...

ahh, ok..... thanks lass :)

Blogger brainhell said...


My challenge, at which Dorman and all other commenters have failed is: If Islam is so bad, what action should we take?

You attempt to draw me in to proving that Islam is good. I don't have to do that. Let us grant for discussion the assertion that Islam is bad.

Given that, what action do we take?

Asking this question is not an attempt to imply that Islam is good. It's a question: What action should we take?


Thanks for reading my blog. While my words therein speak for themselves and I may reject your characterization of them, being annoyed by a given Christian behavior set doesn't mean that I have to despise Islam.

And even if I did despise Islam, the question remains what action should we take?

Everyone here is trying hard to dodge that question.

Anonymous Tracy said...


You give me too much credit. I didn't mean to try to divert you, just get some clarification.

I wanted to make sure I understood what was going on here. And I think I do now...

Whether Islam is good or bad is irrelevant, it's all about the question. "What action do we take?"

And to educate is not an acceptable action.

Thanks for clearing things up for me. This will help me follow discussion here with better understanding.

Blogger mattandriver said...

BH: It seems to me that the only complement you deserve, within this forum, is your focus. It’s just too bad that you are so focused on one single point. Dorman only gives you facts. This “what to do” crap is up to you, not him. If you have your own strong beliefs, then express them. Otherwise, I as you to stop this ‘I’ll ask until I get the answer I want to hear’ crap.

Only my opinion, of course. Have a great day, seriously.

Blogger mattandriver said...

as = ask. Sorry.

Blogger brainhell said...


> And to educate is not an acceptable action.

I know why we educate kids about math, literature and civics. Why should we educate people about the evils of Islam?


That's the great thing about the written word, and blogging in particular: Anyone can reply. Since Dorman, a US soldier, is helping the cause of Islamic fanatics who claim that the US hates Islam, I want to know what purpose could possibly be served by condemning a religion. It seems VERY counter-productive, if you know anything about faith. And if you get tired of my asking, you're free to skip my comments. A great thing.

So far, no answer at all on what action we should take if Islam is a problem. I suspect that perhaps this is a mutual-affirmation club for people who want to blow of some useless steam, who want to agree and be agreed with. Sound and fury.

and matt,

Anonymous Tracy said...

>Why should we educate people about the evils of Islam?

We should educate people about Islam because...

Big violent things happen and then someone says, "I/we did it for Islam." For a lot of Americans Islam is just a word. We don't comprehend the concept. The only idea most of us have of important Islamic words is what's inferred from news stories. The media calls itself unbiased while painting a deliberate picture. Like when you use a phrase like "alarming and ingnorant screed of hate" and then call yourself objective. Those aren't objective or unbiased words.

The Eastern part of the world doesn't always value things like the majority of Westerners(ex. value the individual).-Not saying that's bad-just not the same and it makes it difficult for us to understand those as motivating factors. When we don't understand what motivates them, we have a tendency to attribute it to things we can understand-which is likely not accurate.

The more people who are educated about Islam the better our chances of finding that person who CAN rise to your challenge and answer that question which stymies leaders all over the world.

That's MY inadequate nonanswer.

Education may not be the action you have in mind, BH, but I think it would be a good start to a plan that will develop over the coming years.

Blogger brainhell said...

> Education may not be the action you have in mind, BH, but I think it would be a good start to a plan that will develop over the coming years.

"Dunno why we should indoctrinate people to hate Islam, but in the fulness of time the reason will be revealed." Meanwhile, those bombers you mention will be doing more and more 'for Islam' in respionse to your 'education' campaign -- which they will see as proof of your hatred.

After all this discussion, I think there's absolutely no harm in someone answering the question: If we grant for discussion that Islam is dangerous, what ACTION should we take in the world (after, of course 'educating' ourselves about a proposition that we've already granted.)


I declare that none of you have one shred of an idea.

Therefore, the idea that Islam is dangerous is proven false. QED.

Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out.

There BH, there's your answer.

In it's fanatical form, ANY religion can be dangerous. The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades...anyone ever heard of those? This is just a bigger war on a grander scale. The whole My God is better than Your God playground squab never got anyone anywhere except a black eye and some missing teeth. And that's where we all are now.

So what to do? Well, Bush put an end to diplomacy. That's out. We're in the middle of a war that has no end in sight. Nukes probably aren't an option, as quick and dirty as it would be. Tolerance, education...those do no good because there's always someone that can't play nice. Buy them out? That never works either.

So, we're back at an impasse. Anyone have any iocane powder?

Blogger mattandriver said...



I declare that none of you have one shred of an idea.

Therefore, the idea that Islam is dangerous is proven false. QED.”

NICE, real nice… You ask one question, just one, and no one answered it, or at least not to your liking. AND THIS leads you to THIS conclusion? I know you think you’re done here, with this thread, but let me give you the scenario of what you have just done. Here goes:

Guy kills family. Guy goes to trial; you’re the honorable Judge BH. Your first question is “what do we do with him?”. The court shows you days of testimony. You ask the same question again. The prosecution again shows you every single detail of the events leading up to, during and after the crime, including pictures, testimony and a legal confession from a co-conspirator.

You finally conclude:

I declare that none of you have one shred of an idea.

Therefore, the idea that this guy is dangerous is proven false. QED.”

Maybe you should run for office so you can be with all the other ass clowns in our 3000-ring circus. You’ve proven that you’d fit in just fine.

Blogger mattandriver said...

Have a nice day.

Blogger Crystal said...

I don't think everything should be tolerated. I just believe there are several acceptable ways of dealing with intolerable acts.

Aside from all of that, I'd also like to tell D, BH, and other D-readers why I have continued to read D's blog for over a year now. I'd just like it to be out there to clarify what, I think, his blog contributes and gives to complete strangers like me. People who know him prolly get a lot more out of it. But for others, I think this is a fair assessment as to what D's blog can answer and how it can be an incentive to push an individual to look for more answers (independently, not badgering others to do it for them).

Dorman seems to be very honest about his experience with the army, atleast as honest as he can be under the circumstances. I think he brings a very unique perspective blending his private life with his time in the military, in Germany, and also in Iraq. You might say that his is just like any other soldier's blog, but I would disagree. Because he chose to enter the army when he did, I think he comes from a completely different place than many of my younger friends who entered the military right out of high school. Whenever I find the time, I try to learn more and more about Islam, and Dorman's point of view on the subject is definitely helpful and always informative. He pushes me to question what I know. He's not unbiased, yet his honesty about his interactions with Muslims, his research on Islam, and his annoyance with American ignorance pushes people like me, who would probably rather be ostriches with our heads stuck in the sand, to search for answers beyond the media and the politicians.

But I definitely don't come to his site in order to discover the answer of all answers that will end the world's grievances and solve all of our problems. It's like asking why the U.N. hasn't stopped world hunger, or why AIDS is still an epidemic in many African countries.

BH, as for your "challenge," I don't remember anyone ever having claimed to want to answer you. I could be wrong. I have been many times before. But seriously, could you drop your pointless agenda already?

Disclaimer: What I said regarding why I read his blog is not to be construed as the only reasons to read his blog. And I am sure Dorman has much better reasons for blogging. This is just what I have gleaned from my experience with reading his blog.

Blogger brainhell said...

Somehow or other my comment was edited to append the paragraph beginning with: "Maybe you should run for office..."

I don't know if this comment will be edited or whether other edits were made to the prior comment, but if the intent was to make me go away, I can do that by a much simpler process.

Blogger brainhell said...

> BH, as for your "challenge," I don't remember anyone ever having claimed to want to answer you.

I agree. But since Dorman's repeated warnings that Islam is dangerous are so dangerous to our other soldiers and civilians, I want to get him to think about what practical advantage his warnings could have. My opinion: Less than zero.

>But seriously, could you drop your pointless agenda already?

'Pointless.' If you hand al Qaeda exactly the ammunition they want, how 'pointless' is it of me to ask you to stop? No.

Blogger mattandriver said...

Sigh... I give up.

Blogger Dorman said...

is it me or does BH filter out *every* comment I make with my answer to his nagging question? I've answered it about half-a-dozen times now over the last year.

Blogger mattandriver said...

Nope, not just you. Plus, not only with you either. Just another reason why he belongs in Capital Hill.

Blogger brainhell said...


You've reseponded, but you've never mentioned one action. You've never answered. What's so odd is that no one has ever said: "Oh, all right then: We should wear pink! Now stop asking!"

That's because the feel-good response to world problems of blaming Islam has no practical implications. It's pure masturbation. Most of you know that, otherwise you'd mention one real-world action.

Blogger Robert Chase said...

That's Capitol Hill, matt.


Blogger mattandriver said...


Yea,yea.... :-)

Blogger mattandriver said...

Want to nit pick? Here goes. Your question was answered. (What, do you prefer a pink bomb colored bomb?)
Nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out.

There BH, there's your answer.

Better gather your ducks man, cuz shortly, you’re on my shit list.

Blogger SnotSucker said...

When was the last time an American military commander, the White House or even the new Iraqi gov't was contacted by Al Qaeda or other insurgencies to have a sit down and discuss issues diplomatically??????
Yep, peaceful, very peaceful.

I agree. At their next pilgrimage, nuke all those MF's. And if nukes are not PC, then use the biggest bombs we got.

Blogger Dorman said...

um. let us not forget either that both the Afghanistan campaign AND the Iraqi campaign are both ILLEGITIMATE military activities. Remember 9/11? Remember the REAL 9/11?

Blogger brainhell said...

> Nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out.

> There BH, there's your answer.

How to ensure that you nuke 'em ALL? And, what to do about global fallout? Your plan lacks practicality.

Dorman, nuke 'em all?

> Better gather your ducks man, cuz shortly, you’re on my shit list.

As much as is possible for a crippled guy across the internet to shiver in fear while laughing at you, I do so.

Dormaan, I kinda had a grudge against the Taliban since 1999 or so. I'm glad we toppled them. Post some about the 'rea' 9/11, please.

Blogger mattandriver said...

“As much as is possible for a crippled guy across the internet to shiver in fear while laughing at you, I do so.”

With all due respect Sir, you asked for an answer, basically any answer. Well, you got one! Then, you overanalyze the answer. I ask you to please read all of your comments within this forum, and then re-comment again if possible. It seems to me that you are one of those people who display themselves, maybe unknowingly, as self-righteous. I’ve been writing to you in the most laymen’s of terms up to now, totally on purpose, as this is the educational level that I am surrounded by. I guess I speak the language. If I must change the hat, I will do so as you are just not getting my point thus far. I blame myself, as any author would.

Again, totally seriously, have a nice day.

Blogger mattandriver said...

Plus, I read your blog quite often and respect you on many levels.


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