Sunday, October 09, 2005

Trust is a Haircut

Faith is a haircut and shave by an Iraqi.

40 Comments:

Anonymous Jac,k Burton said...

Keep the faith brother. There are many here in the States that truly appreciate what you do, the sacrifices you've made and the pain and sorrow you've endured.

In reading your blog, I've noticed quite a pattern. The rights that we have that defines our way of life is a giant bank account. Soldiers, sailors, police, fireman, etc. consistenty pay into the account, most often taking nothing in return.

Many others consistently take from the account, while paying nothing in return. There's a few such individuals here from what I've been reading.

Tell me, why do those who contribute the least complain the most about what they deserve and what's due to them?

10:27  
Blogger Dorman said...

Just a quote that was posted in a previous entry (Allah Tahlize). Thank you Jack!

And yes, the United States has been, and continues to be,the best thing going, ever. I don't see millions of Americans racing across the Mexican border now do I?

You may all want to go back to that entry and the Easter Egg one to see what other awesome insights he's posted.

10:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you sir. I'll be following you until you're out of harms way. It pains me when I realize that there are so many elitist takers out there who ponder the evils of our country while sitting comfortably in a starbucks, calling our President a Naxi, pissing on George Bush stickers in a urinal and pondering the rights of coffee bean pickers in Guatemala. Never has so little perspective existed in so many. It's hard to see the big picture when the toughest obstacle you have to overcome is that they're out of decaff double latte at the weekly world worker's party meeting.

11:04  
Blogger brainhell said...

Vietnam vet told me that on his way over, the barber lady cut his hair and then grabbed his head and twisted his neck both ways to crack it. He breiefly thought she was a VC agent using martial arts to kill him. Then he thanked her.

12:54  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

Dorman, reading your blog has motivated we to try once again to get into the game. I like to think that calling out the misguided rhetoric of some and identifying and honoring Americans such as yourself is a worthwhile endeavor. We'll see what I can come up with and how it works out.

15:28  
Blogger Crystal said...

d, you know how i feel about hair, so i have the utmost respect for you enduring such things. i could never do that, ever ever ever. yucko.

also, i like the evolved vibe of your posts too, and i hope you keep reaching out there finding new angles for us to contemplate.

peace :)

07:38  
Blogger SnotSucker said...

I like Jack. Jack, where the heck have you been.
As MattandRiver said, "we told you you'd feel better". Keep up the good work.

10:59  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

SS,

Damn job has been taking away from my web time. I try to read the mil blogs just to catch the stories about our soldiers and what's going on and came upon this one via Mudville Gazette. It still does, but shouldn't, shock me of some of the commentary and opinions that people have. I mean, Dorman is risking his life and you get someone questioning his right to invest in Iraqi currency? You have to be f-ing kidding me. Not only should you risk your life for me in some far away hell-hole, but you have to be poor doing it. How else are we going to pay for all my social programs?

I just love how the very same crowd that very nearly killed our military as an effective fighting force during Vietnam and generally despise everything the military stands for all of a sudden are their biggest supporters. Support the troops, bring them home. Yeah right, like those folks could care less how many soldiers die. Only that it's an effective tool to attack the Bush government. I'd respect them more if they were honest about their hatred for the military.

It's tough for me, because where I live is very solidly on the conservative side, so you tend to go through life not realizing how many people there are out there who think that the world is a better place in spite of the United States, not because of it. To those I say, get lost, if we fail so miserably to meet your expectations, move. You'll be happier, and I'll be happier. I call that a win-win any day.

15:24  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

Jack Burton, one small point of clarification aside from the United States, there are people from other countries who have posted here.

11:46  
Blogger Robert Chase said...

anonymous:

funny you talk about people doing all those things and talking about the big picture, when you post.....anonymously.

18:55  
Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Jack: so you tend to go through life not realizing how many people there are out there who think that the world is a better place in spite of the United States, not because of it. To those I say, get lost, if we fail so miserably to meet your expectations, move. You'll be happier, and I'll be happier. I call that a win-win any day.

Part of the greatness of this country is its citizen's rights to disagree with the government. Nowhere in our Consititution does it say you have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (as long as you agree with the pervailing party's politics)". Your arrogance and attitude of superiority makes my stomach turn. I do have issue with APoV's inability to make a sensible rebuttal, as the random factoids and commentary posted often didn't clearly relate to the debate at hand. But, I fully respect his right to ask questions and attempt to make statements to defend his beliefs. Dorman has stated from the very beginning that this blog was intended to be a forum for debate (To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.). He posts his thoughts, ideas and observations. We ponder those thoughts, ideas and observations, counter where we need more clarification and present opposing views.

Your attitude of "if you don't like it get the hell out" is offensive and distateful to me. You would have me drink the Kool-Aid and rah rah rally behind a man that speciously and reckelessly leads this country down a precarious path, and then you question my patriotism when I raise concerns about the direction we're being led? Dorman himself has stated that he feels betrayed by the Administration. That he's not clear on what his purpose has been in Iraq after certain information has been slowly revealed since he got there. Oh, and the reconstruction? Yeah, that's up for questioning too.

To say that the only reason we 'support our troops' is to use it as an effective tool against the Bush government is a load of baloney. I support our troops because they are our friends, our family, our neighbors. Just because I don't believe in a war doesn't mean that I don't believe in a soldier's right to fight that war. It's all about personal choices. I would never seek to take that away from someone. You on the other hand have seemingly indicated that you would seek to silence those that would criticize. How's that now, Comrade?

20:21  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

ISL,

I don't drink the Koolaid and I could care less if I make your stomach turn. Somewhere out in the desert is a potential terrorist who's tired of getting shot at, tired of fighting and a little tired of living life running from US troops. It's really a no win situation. But wait, he also knows, based on the traitors from Vietnam, that if he can hold on just a few more months until the Cindy Sheehans of the world kill our Country's will, he's going to win the the US is going to leave. Cindy Sheehan kills soldiers, plain and simple. You can wrap yourself in your "dissidence is patriotic" crap all you want, but I don't buy it. If your message had so much impact on the voters of the US, and I don't mean just a few Urban cesspools, we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

I don't agree with the Iraq war, but no in the way you would think. I don't think we've done enough to support our troops. More troops, less rules of engagement and carpet bombing of those of are allowing terrorists across their borders. It was probably wrong in the first place, but people like Dorman are on the bus and the bus has definately left the station. Bug out now, and we're once again perceived as weak. Just as we showed them in Beruit, Somalia and God knows where else, bloody our nose and we'll quit. What do I get from the democrats? More concern for the rights of terrorists who were held at Gitmo and Abu Gharib. Comparing our soldiers to the Nazis, Stalin and Pol Pot. Yes, democrats support our troops, as long as they're handing out food and water in New Orleans.

As for take it or leave it, so what. For all the bitching I hear about how bad things are here, I don't see a mass exodus towards the borders. So what you're saying is although we're so lacking in so many ways, it's still better here than anywhere else you'd like to live. What happened to all the blowhards threatening to leave?

This administration was democratically elected to run this Country. If you can't stand the pain of living under the government of the party you didn't vote for, perhaps a democracy isn't for you. That's the rules of the game and until your party wins, I guess you'll just have to live with it. Sad to say that a majority of this Country doesn't agree with you.

For me, I'm probably a little left of center in total. What I hate about the democrats, however, is their disdain for the military and their disdain for this country. Those issues alone make it easy for me to vote for Bush and his band of idiots and not the fools that embrace Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan.

I don't want to silence you, I want you to speak louder. Tell me that the President of the US is a nazi. Tell me our soldiers remind you of Stalin. Tell me Katrina was some evil plot to wipe out black and poor people. Tell it all over and over again because it makes it so much easier for me to continue voting for no talent ass clowns like Bush because the alternate "makes my stomach turn".

23:12  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

Prior to retiring for the evening, I will put this question to you:

Since you don't support our war and involvement in Iraq, what do you suggest we do? Should we leave, go to isolationism and keep our troops in the US until someone you consider the enemy attacks? If we do that, can we close up our borders in total and reserve the right to kick anyone out and refuse entry to anyone we thing might mean us harm? Do you think we should pull our troops out of the Middle East altogether but continue pouring billions into international welfare programs? Did you know that the US has given more money to "Palestine" than any other country in the world? Would you sit back and let the muslims create a caliphate from Europe to East Asia? If they did, would you still call it a religion of peace? Would you pull our troops out of the oil field and let the cards fall where they may? Would you be happy if OBL and his thugs controlled 60% of the world's oil supply? If they did, would you support nuclear energy and drilling in ANWAR?

Take some time and tell me what you would do if you ran the show. What should we do, seriously?

23:36  
Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Jack, you are so right. This is a no-win situation. Shit in one hand, wish in the other, and see which one fills up faster. I'm familiar with that concept. But the blowhard "stay the course" concept isn't getting us anywhere either. We're spinning our wheels. IF I had a President that was accountable to the people, and IF I had a President that was honest about his reasons for going to war and IF that President's Administration had a plan for finishing this job, then maybe I would have a basis to lend my support to that President. But, I don't believe that any of the above are true.

I realize our guys and gals are there, and there's not a whole heck of a lot we can do about it now. But there is no clear path for when our "job" there will be done. Whether it was wrong or right is a moot point. I think Cindy Sheehan has her head up her ass. Her son made his choice. I think she's doing him a sad injustice now. But I think I understand her point, even though she's going about it in the wrong way. She wants answers and accountability and a clear plan, just like the rest of the American Citizens deserve. She wants to know exactly what it was that her son gave his life for, because from day 1, we haven't gotten a straight answer.

If you can't come down off your pedestal long enough to listen to what I had to say, I'll go ahead and say it one more time. Democracy is about having the right to not like our leadership. It's about having the right to disagree with our neighbor's opinion. It's about having the right to make my satisfaction, or lack thereof, known. It's about the right for me to wait until "my party wins", and then listen to you bitch, moan and complain about all the damn social programs that give people the chance to make their lives better. There are many things I don't like about those social programs, but it's better than watching children on our streets starve.

I never said that the President was a Nazi, I never thought that our soldiers remind me of Stalin, and I actually think Katrina was retribution for re-electing the no talent ass clown Bush.

We can't leave Iraq. We have to finish. But in order to do that, Mr. Bush has to decide how we're going to do it. Can someone show me an outline? What's his plan? I mean, besides "stay the course", which I take as double-speak for "keep pouring money into a sand-pit while contractors get paid ten times what our soldiers get paid".

I think we should close up our borders no matter what. I'm tired of educating the next generation of terrorists. I'm tired of educating the next generation of off-shore jobs. I'm tired of paying for Lupe to walk across our border and drop an automatic American citizen. I'm tired of paying for disaster aid for earthquakes, tsunamis and locust swarms. And you know why? Because they're all ungrateful bastards. We either don't do enough fast enough, or they're tired of us telling them what to do. You can't have it both ways people. I'm tired of depending on foreign oil. I don't give a rats ass who owns it all. But it's the reason our boys (and girls) are getting killed. Might as well replace the blood in our veins with black crude. I support initiatives to wean ourselves off of oil, but seeing as how Bush's oil buddies have had record profits the last couple of years, well, I don't see that happening. So we continue to kill and be killed for the almighty crude. We might as well pray to Crude rather than God or Allah or Yahweh.

So you go on and tell me that my patriotism isn't real. You go ahead and tell me that I don't cry real tears when I hear about the latest X number of soliders blown up in a road side bomb. You go ahead and tell me I don't support our troops when I march my ass down to DFW airport and welcome them home on their two week vacations. You go ahead and tell me I don't care about our guys when I put together a care package and drop it off at the USPS. You go ahead and tell me to 'love it or leave it'. The reason I ask these questions is because I do love it. If I didn't, I would be apathetic and silent. But that's not my way.

00:53  
Blogger SnotSucker said...

DAMN! All this from a haircut!!)

08:00  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

Nnothing like a good haircut. It's remarkable how polarized people within the United States are. It's almost understable that a foreigner like myself can cause a good brawl. Despite the unflattering things ISL has to say about what I wrote, she seems to provide a clearer view of the problems with being in Iraq. Since the post is way off topic, to anyone interested here are is an exhaustive attempt to document civilian casaulities. While it is US military policy "not to do body counts", needless to say it is only human to do so: civilian death toll in Iraq

13:42  
Blogger Dorman said...

Lt's keep in mind too that the civilian death toll also includes those killed by their own countrymen, not totally by the coalition troops.


I just got back from what I hoped was a potentially hairy mission through Iraq (it unfortunately fell through), and found all this excitement!

Anyay, part of my answer to Iraq is this....ponder Afghanistan. Remember Afghanistan?

08:45  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

Dorman, The report is very interesting in this respect as their reporting itemizes which civilians were killed by coalition troops, which were killed by insurgents, and which were killed with both forces present. I think you would appreciate the level of research done.
Of the some 30,000 civilian deaths that are documented, nearly 10,000 are attributed to US led forces alone. About 2,500 civilian deaths are atributed to insurgents. Take a look, I would be curious if you would agree or disagree with the reporting of this site.

11:30  
Blogger InterstellarLass said...

Excitement huh? Well, you know we'll do whatever it takes to keep you entertained. :)

15:20  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

You gotta love how concerned people like apov are about Iraqis getting killed, now. Where was the outrage when Sadaam gassed 5,000 Kurds? Where was the outrage when he was killing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens? Where was the outrage when he used mustard gas in the war with Iran. Oh, you're not angry about people getting killed, just people getting killed when America is involved.

I'd be a lot happier if our international "friends" admitted their blind hatred for all things US and stopped trying to wrap themselves in this whole Iraqi civilian body count. Like most other things coming from the various twits posing as foreign elites, the hypocrisy is only rivaled by the fact that many of our citizens go along with it.

The United States has given more money and assistance to the poor and downtrodden of the world over the past 100 years than anyone else, by far. We give more money to palestinians than anyone else and those scumbags throw a fiesta to celebrate 9-11. Why is a single cent of my hard earned money going to support those terror loving dipshits?

If it was up to me, we'd pull our soldiers, and pull our foreign assistance to all countries. Next catastrophy, don't look at us, we'd hate to meddle in your affairs. Don't like what the Serbians are doing in Kosovo, sorry, that's Europe's problem. Angry that the UN stood by while 1 million people were chopped up in Rawanda, don't look at us. Everyone wants our money, and of course the financial benefits of our military bases, they just don't want to hear what we think and certainly have no desire for us to do what we think is in our best interests.

To sum it up, piss off. The well being of the international community isn't worth one hangnail on one of our brave soldiers.

18:27  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

Lass, I apologize if I offended you. I didn't really have you in mind when I was pissed. I think we agree on more than we don't. I don't like Bush, but the thought of President Kerry is truly frightening. I understand cronyism, and my company has been the beneficiary in part years of it, although not as much as we'd hoped. But to pull that crap when you're President of the United States? Do these people have a friggin clue anymore?

I wish he would fire Rumsfeld and I wish he's punt his echo chamber out of Washington. At this point, however, all anyone can do is hope the next three years pass along marginally.

And in three years, because of all the "I hate America and the military" crowd, I'll vote Republican. It pains me to say that without knowing who it is, but it's true. I cannot fathom voting for the party that continually trashes this country, the country that I love so dearly. We have more freedom, more opportunity and more potential that anything is the history of organized civilizations yet so many people can only find the bad and bitch about it. I will never, ever, see things their way.

19:45  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

JB, the data on civilians killed in the Iraq invasion, were provided in response to a request for facts not opinions. As for the use of mustard gas during the iraq iran war, here are some more facts regarding the position of the United States, when Iraq was considered "the good side". iran iraq war In particular there is a very nice picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.

12:52  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

And the relevance to the lack or international outrage over things Sadaam did is what?

You hate us now and you probably hated us then. So who cares who we were shaking hands with.

Winston Churchill: "We are at war with Germany"

British Liberal: "How can that be, I've got a picture of Chamberlin shaking Hitler's hand?"

Bottom line, things change. Please try and do better than repeating michael moore lines next time.

13:31  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

JB, I seem to do over step well enough on my own, I kindly request that you not say things for me.

14:34  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

JB, the citing civilian deaths was provided because little is known about this. Everyone knows, about the crimes of Saddam.

14:47  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

Little is known about the mating habits of the giant squid too, but I haven't heard anyone asking Dorman about that?

15:24  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

JB, Come on? The comments were totally off the topic of the haircut, by the time I posted. As for relevancy, if you can't see how civilian deaths are relevant to an invasion, then perhaps there really is too big of a gap here to bridge. I'll leave it that.

15:54  
Blogger mattandriver said...

Can I get a Haircut too?

20:05  
Blogger mattandriver said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

20:28  
Blogger mattandriver said...

Deleted comment was mine. Decided to reword.

Dorman;

Your original post was purely philosophical (IMHP). Plus, your “Ultimate Goal” is one of peace and tranquility. So then, what is your take on all the virtual hostility that has followed?

Also, what is your knowledge and opinion of the mating habits of the giant squid?

Come on JB, you knew it was coming! J

21:39  
Blogger anotherPointOfView said...

ok, I will bite, recently a little known story of a giant catfish was reported. The catfish weighed 646 pounds. fish tale

22:23  
Blogger InterstellarLass said...

I'll bring the vinegar and tartar sauce...who's gonna bring the coleslaw and hush-puppies? Anyone got a fryer?

00:40  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

That thing will feed a village for a year. If we could just teach people to fish for only giant catfish we'd solve world hunger. Great idea unless you're the catfish.

07:27  
Blogger Dorman said...

I think my internet connection suck lately and that is why I haven't gotten more involved.

JB is right on a lot of things and APoV is right on things too in this post. Of course there is, and should be, polarity throughout the worlds' view because we all consider our own interests at different priorities. My allusion to Afghanistan was simple as aa analog to Iraq....things went smooth and quick there. Unfortunately e still have troops there looking for OBL, whom btw ought to be donating some of his billions to rebuild Pakistan, not us. If he did in fact get crushed in some cave in Pakistan, it would be the worst case scenario because he would be harder to find and a decomposed corpse harder to ID.

You know who should be outraged the most , and the most active, concerning the inhuman treatment of people in the Middle East? The FREAKIN' MIDDLE EASTERNERS. They stand around like sheep to a slaughter, bleteing anti-american sentiments while blaming their plight on us. Sovereignty = screw'em. My opinion is that we need to pull out, give the country a reasonable head start on rebuilding itself, then allow them to do it themselves. They need help? Saudi is right next door, they have cash and resources.

The US needs to pull back, stop its backdoor imperialism, and take care of itself (aboveboard) first. N.O., Bush promises aid and reats 7 days after the fact....Pakistan has a quake, Bush reacts with aid 7 minutes after the fact.

[I'm coming home shortly :) ]

09:31  
Blogger brainhell said...

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. forces in Iraq said on Saturday that they were holding a man suspected of acting as a barber to senior al Qaeda militants and helping them change their appearance to evade capture.

ADVERTISEMENT

The man, named as Walid Muhammad Farhan Juwar al-Zubaydi -- "aka 'The Barber,"' the U.S. military statement said -- was arrested in Baghdad on September 24, the day before U.S. troops caught up with and killed a militant they described as the most senior al Qaeda leader in the capital, Abu Azzam.

"'The Barber's' duties included altering senior al Qaeda in Iraq members' appearances by dying hair color, altering hairstyles and changing facial hair in their efforts to evade capture," the military said in the statement.

09:58  
Blogger Dorman said...

Sad that all it takes is a haircut and shave to subvert our security efforts.

07:11  
Blogger Jack Burton said...

Tell us more, if you can.

07:36  
Blogger mattandriver said...

Military intelligence is a contrition in terms.

20:22  
Blogger Dorman said...

imagine what they could get away with if they discovered the Groucho glasses with the mustache.

12:26  
Blogger SnotSucker said...

I always prefer those fake Bubba teeth!

14:40  

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